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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 21:58:55 GMT -6
Probably the reason they don't point out that they are Muslim is because they don't want to be associated with the violence seen in the religion of Islam. Why you want to claim that violence is another issue. So you dress to look Muslim but you are American or American Indian. You are a mish mash of belief. Just like Muḥammad was. I don't care what you wear or how your beard looks if you follow the Koran as your Holy Book then you are not a Christian. Most definitely not a Christian. Never will be one again. I do sincerly believe Islam and the Qur'an are all about Peace. It is by being a Muslim I have really learned to love Jesus(as) and give my life fully to God(swt) and only God(swt) After 65 years of thinking I knew Peace. I finally found true unshakable peace in the Qur'an. You can pretend all day that the religion of Islam founded by and on your Islamic prophet Muhammad is "peaceful" but in the real world we ALL see that Islam is a religion of HATE. Nobody is so stupid that they can't see it. Some do DENY it. Your denial does not make me stupid. |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 23, 2013 22:09:08 GMT -6
Most definitely not a Christian. Never will be one again. I do sincerly believe Islam and the Qur'an are all about Peace. It is by being a Muslim I have really learned to love Jesus(as) and give my life fully to God(swt) and only God(swt) After 65 years of thinking I knew Peace. I finally found true unshakable peace in the Qur'an. You can pretend all day that the religion of Islam founded by and on your Islamic prophet Muhammad is "peaceful" but in the real world we ALL see that Islam is a religion of HATE. Nobody is so stupid that they can't see it. Some do DENY it. Your denial does not make me stupid. |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 23, 2013 23:26:28 GMT -6
You can pretend all day that the religion of Islam founded by and on your Islamic prophet Muhammad is "peaceful" but in the real world we ALL see that Islam is a religion of HATE. Nobody is so stupid that they can't see it. Some do DENY it. Your denial does not make me stupid. No one has said you are stupid. I base my thoughts and beliefs upon what I see and verify with my own eyes. Not what others tell me. What I read is just a starting guide. From there I search on my own. I do know some people who call them self Muslim do commit horrible acts of Violence.I also know they are just a very small percentage of the world's Muslims and do not represent Islam. There have been Muslims in America since Columbus. They have never caused any problems and lived in Peace since 1776.. many Muslim Families have roots that date back to the revolutionary war and earlier. Just as there have been Muslims in every Nation going back hundreds of years. The vast majority of Muslims live alongside non-Muslims in peace. What I have found is there are millions of Muslims living in the US (not counting the 10 million NOI) and very few have every committed an act of violence. I know quite a few American Muslims and have not found one that thinks the Qur'an teaches hate or Violence. I also know many more outside the USA and the story is the same. Nearly every Muslim that advocates violencehas come from the Mideast. Yet only about 10% of the world's Muslims come from the Mideast. Virtually every Muslim involved with Violence has been involved with radical terrorist organizations Which are not recognized by most Muslims With Islam being the Fastest growing religion in the World and presently over 1.5 Billion people professing to be Muslim, if Islam taught violence this world would have long been destroyed. Yet out of the 49 nations with a Muslim Majority Population only about 5 Muslim Nations are plagued with violence. If you look at a list of the world's nations sorted by safety You will find many Islamic Nations are considered to be less violent then the United States I colored the Islamic Nations red SOURCEThe remainder of the world's nations are more violent than the US, go to the SOURCE for the full listing of the 149 Nations of the world. The list was made before the current Violence in Egypt. I will admit that now Egypt Might be more violent then the USA, If Islam taught violence do you think any Islamic nations would be less violent than the USA? But I think it is worth Noting that there are 19 Islamic Nations considered to be less violent that the USA and especially note that the world's largest Muslim Nation (Indonesia) is less violent than the USA. Indonesia has nearly 1/4 of all the world's Muslims. |
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Post by Maggie on Sept 24, 2013 6:06:15 GMT -6
Because I often serve as an Imam I deliberately make it obvious I am a Muslim by the way I dress. Although that does not always work as Islamic Sunnah Clothing like I wear, looks very Much like Traditional Sioux and Ojibwa clothing. Quite often strangers comment and say "You are the first Indian I ever saw with a Beard, what tribe do you belong to?" My wife who is Cheyenne wears traditional Cheyenne clothing, it meets the qualifications for Islamic sunnah clothing. I suppose this is a little off topic but this really interests me. What is "sunnah" clothing? What qualifies any sort of dress as Islamic? Modest dress I would suppose but clearly there is more to it than that. If this is too off-topic, I certainly would welcome a thread on Islamic attire. But to return to the main subject; like I said earlier, Islam, rightly or wrongly, is so thoroughly identified with the most senseless violence that even if peace were to descend on the Mideast today, it would take generations for most of us in the West to disentangle Islam from that barbaric violence. Nor can Islam be held blameless. It was born in bloodshed (it really doesn't matter if Muhammad himself killed anyone or simply ordered his troops to kill) and that reality colors everything. While most people know little history, some of us do. The popular revisionist notion that the Christian West conducted violent crusades against Islam and the Islamic world for no reason is historical nonsense. The Muslims had been harrying the very weak West since the 7th century. The outcome was not at all clear and the conquest of the West was a real possibility at several points in its history. This continued into the 17th century. If we hadn't won at Lepanto, I suppose we might all be speaking Turkish and praying 5 times a day! History is a mighty funny and messy thing. |
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Post by jstwebbrowsing on Sept 24, 2013 7:06:13 GMT -6
Undoubtedly some Muslims are violent, but in order to blame their religion I would have to see where their religion teaches violence is okay because many Christians have been violent too. So where does the Qua'ran encourage violence? Or if it teaches non-violence where does it do so?
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 24, 2013 8:32:34 GMT -6
Because I often serve as an Imam I deliberately make it obvious I am a Muslim by the way I dress. Although that does not always work as Islamic Sunnah Clothing like I wear, looks very Much like Traditional Sioux and Ojibwa clothing. Quite often strangers comment and say "You are the first Indian I ever saw with a Beard, what tribe do you belong to?" My wife who is Cheyenne wears traditional Cheyenne clothing, it meets the qualifications for Islamic sunnah clothing. I suppose this is a little off topic but this really interests me. What is "sunnah" clothing? What qualifies any sort of dress as Islamic? Modest dress I would suppose but clearly there is more to it than that. If this is too off-topic, I certainly would welcome a thread on Islamic attire. But to return to the main subject; like I said earlier, Islam, rightly or wrongly, is so thoroughly identified with the most senseless violence that even if peace were to descend on the Mideast today, it would take generations for most of us in the West to disentangle Islam from that barbaric violence. Nor can Islam be held blameless. It was born in bloodshed (it really doesn't matter if Muhammad himself killed anyone or simply ordered his troops to kill) and that reality colors everything. While most people know little history, some of us do. The popular revisionist notion that the Christian West conducted violent crusades against Islam and the Islamic world for no reason is historical nonsense. The Muslims had been harrying the very weak West since the 7th century. The outcome was not at all clear and the conquest of the West was a real possibility at several points in its history. This continued into the 17th century. If we hadn't won at Lepanto, I suppose we might all be speaking Turkish and praying 5 times a day! History is a mighty funny and messy thing. Sunnah basically means "in the manner of the prophet" For the women we do know there were several different styles, much based up upon the tribe. But basically loose fitting clothiing covering the hair, body down to the wrist and ankles. We do know women often rode horses that lets us know clothing could not interfere with the getting on and off a horse. looking at what we know of the times and we have a rough idea and we know there was diversity. We also know that the Earliest Muslims outside Arabia were in China and that construction of the First Mosque in China began while Muhammad(saws) was still alive. So looking at the Traditional Female clothing in the various Arab tribes and early Arab communities we can get a fair idea as to the type of clothing that was worn by women while Muhammad(saws) was alive. Basically looking at Pictures of Mary are very much in line what is sunnah for woman. What you see in Arabia today is more reflective of the the al-Saud family and probably came about, in the late 1800s. Here is a link to where I get most of my clothing, they also sell woman's clothing. It is all considered to be sunnah. LINKMy wife often makes her own clothing but this is similar to what she wears  Except my wife wears a headscarf similar to A Hijab. The Cheyenne women also wear head coverings during festive occasions. Here is a Lakota woman all decked out for a wacipi (Lakota and Cheyenne are essentially sister tribes and very similar)  There were Muslims living peacefully in Europe prior to the 17th Century. Notably the Lipkas (my ancestors) they fought along side the rest of the Europeans against the Ottoman's (Turks) After the Turks were defeated the Crusades of the North literally wiped out the Lipkas Those that did not convert to Christianity were either killed or.kicked out of Lithuania and Poland. My ancestors converted and stayed in Lithuania. I did not find out the lipkas had been Muslim until after I converted to Islam. I knew I was Lipkas but did not know much about the heritage. SOURCE |
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Post by Maggie on Sept 24, 2013 9:15:01 GMT -6
Isn't that ^ a perfect example of how surprising and messy history is?
On the subject of clothing, the black and white picture of the woman is gorgeous. Is she Cheyenne? I am afraid my ignorance of our own native Americans is shocking. Strangely, I have been collecting pictures of various tribes on Pinterest. One can find the most wonderful pictures there. I guess I have grown more interested because I am living in a part of the country in which I actually work with native Creeks and Seminoles and clashes with them and other tribes were an important part of our local history. It is amazing to learn how little one knows!
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 24, 2013 11:42:41 GMT -6
Isn't that ^ a perfect example of how surprising and messy history is?
On the subject of clothing, the black and white picture of the woman is gorgeous. Is she Cheyenne? I am afraid my ignorance of our own native Americans is shocking. Strangely, I have been collecting pictures of various tribes on Pinterest. One can find the most wonderful pictures there. I guess I have grown more interested because I am living in a part of the country in which I actually work with native Creeks and Seminoles and clashes with them and other tribes were an important part of our local history. It is amazing to learn how little one knows! The Black and white picture is Cheyenne from the North Cheyenne Reservation. same Reservation My wife was born on. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 12:47:02 GMT -6
No one has said you are stupid. I base my thoughts and beliefs upon what I see and verify with my own eyes. Not what others tell me. What I read is just a starting guide. From there I search on my own. I do know some people who call them self Muslim do commit horrible acts of Violence.I also know they are just a very small percentage of the world's Muslims and do not represent Islam. There have been Muslims in America since Columbus. They have never caused any problems and lived in Peace since 1776.. many Muslim Families have roots that date back to the revolutionary war and earlier. Just as there have been Muslims in every Nation going back hundreds of years. The vast majority of Muslims live alongside non-Muslims in peace. What I have found is there are millions of Muslims living in the US (not counting the 10 million NOI) and very few have every committed an act of violence. I know quite a few American Muslims and have not found one that thinks the Qur'an teaches hate or Violence. I also know many more outside the USA and the story is the same. Nearly every Muslim that advocates violencehas come from the Mideast. Yet only about 10% of the world's Muslims come from the Mideast. Virtually every Muslim involved with Violence has been involved with radical terrorist organizations Which are not recognized by most Muslims With Islam being the Fastest growing religion in the World and presently over 1.5 Billion people professing to be Muslim, if Islam taught violence this world would have long been destroyed. Yet out of the 49 nations with a Muslim Majority Population only about 5 Muslim Nations are plagued with violence. If you look at a list of the world's nations sorted by safety You will find many Islamic Nations are considered to be less violent then the United States I colored the Islamic Nations red SOURCEThe remainder of the world's nations are more violent than the US, go to the SOURCE for the full listing of the 149 Nations of the world. The list was made before the current Violence in Egypt. I will admit that now Egypt Might be more violent then the USA, If Islam taught violence do you think any Islamic nations would be less violent than the USA? But I think it is worth Noting that there are 19 Islamic Nations considered to be less violent that the USA and especially note that the world's largest Muslim Nation (Indonesia) is less violent than the USA. Indonesia has nearly 1/4 of all the world's Muslims. You're still pretending that Mo wasn't a Pagan. Nope I'm not stupid. |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 26, 2013 13:39:31 GMT -6
No one has said you are stupid. I base my thoughts and beliefs upon what I see and verify with my own eyes. Not what others tell me. What I read is just a starting guide. From there I search on my own. I do know some people who call them self Muslim do commit horrible acts of Violence.I also know they are just a very small percentage of the world's Muslims and do not represent Islam. There have been Muslims in America since Columbus. They have never caused any problems and lived in Peace since 1776.. many Muslim Families have roots that date back to the revolutionary war and earlier. Just as there have been Muslims in every Nation going back hundreds of years. The vast majority of Muslims live alongside non-Muslims in peace. What I have found is there are millions of Muslims living in the US (not counting the 10 million NOI) and very few have every committed an act of violence. I know quite a few American Muslims and have not found one that thinks the Qur'an teaches hate or Violence. I also know many more outside the USA and the story is the same. Nearly every Muslim that advocates violencehas come from the Mideast. Yet only about 10% of the world's Muslims come from the Mideast. Virtually every Muslim involved with Violence has been involved with radical terrorist organizations Which are not recognized by most Muslims With Islam being the Fastest growing religion in the World and presently over 1.5 Billion people professing to be Muslim, if Islam taught violence this world would have long been destroyed. Yet out of the 49 nations with a Muslim Majority Population only about 5 Muslim Nations are plagued with violence. If you look at a list of the world's nations sorted by safety You will find many Islamic Nations are considered to be less violent then the United States I colored the Islamic Nations red SOURCEThe remainder of the world's nations are more violent than the US, go to the SOURCE for the full listing of the 149 Nations of the world. The list was made before the current Violence in Egypt. I will admit that now Egypt Might be more violent then the USA, If Islam taught violence do you think any Islamic nations would be less violent than the USA? But I think it is worth Noting that there are 19 Islamic Nations considered to be less violent that the USA and especially note that the world's largest Muslim Nation (Indonesia) is less violent than the USA. Indonesia has nearly 1/4 of all the world's Muslims. You're still pretending that Mo wasn't a Pagan. Nope I'm not stupid. It is all a matter of perspective. I can only answer for myself and can only state what I personally believe. All I know is that I feel closer to God(swt) as a Muslim than I ever did as a Christian. |
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Post by nabilbb on Sept 26, 2013 13:40:47 GMT -6
What is Mo?
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 26, 2013 13:46:05 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 13:51:47 GMT -6
Umm...right. It isn't Maureen. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 13:53:27 GMT -6
And we weren't talking about your beloved Mo...Mu-ha-Mad? |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 26, 2013 14:15:13 GMT -6
And we weren't talking about your beloved Mo...Mu-ha-Mad? Is there any purpose or thing to be gained by being disrespectful of another person's belief? There is nothing wrong with disagreement, but there is no need for deliberate disrespect. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 14:18:33 GMT -6
And we weren't talking about your beloved Mo...Mu-ha-Mad? Is there any purpose or thing to be gained by being disrespectful of another person's belief? There is nothing wrong with disagreement, but there is no need for deliberate disrespect. Oh please Islam is the most disrespectful belief system known to man. You agree with murder in order to further your belief. Do you need photos? |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 26, 2013 14:37:04 GMT -6
Is there any purpose or thing to be gained by being disrespectful of another person's belief? There is nothing wrong with disagreement, but there is no need for deliberate disrespect. Oh please Islam is the most disrespectful belief system known to man. You agree with murder in order to further your belief. Do you need photos? I know I never harmed anyone as a Muslim. but as a "Good Christian" serving as a pilot in Vietnam I filled more body bags than I care to remember. I like myself better as a disrespectful Muslim. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 14:55:40 GMT -6
Oh please Islam is the most disrespectful belief system known to man. You agree with murder in order to further your belief. Do you need photos? I know I never harmed anyone as a Muslim. but as a "Good Christian" serving as a pilot in Vietnam I filled more body bags than I care to remember. I like myself better as a disrespectful Muslim. Interesting and predictable. An Islam Muslim from America. |
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Post by Maggie on Sept 26, 2013 15:15:50 GMT -6
Sky, it is easy to find something so foreign to our way of thinking threatening, but there is no threatening going on here. We have a real chance of learning more and at a deeper level than most people get. Maybe in a year we will look back and still find Islam a problematic religion. Or, maybe, we will have more appreciation for it. I don't know. What I do know is that something millions of people hold near to their hearts can't be dismissed as though it is of no account. What they believe and why matters and we are being offered an up close look at it that may make us better able to help our neighbors understand, too.
It just seems all good to me so far and I invite you to set aside your anger and explore with me what our Muslim friends have to say.
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Post by nabilbb on Sept 26, 2013 15:16:30 GMT -6
And we weren't talking about your beloved Mo...Mu-ha-Mad? Sky, You pretend and milk to the limit that Islam is violent and disrespectful religion, it was explained to you many times that was not the case, but you insist on your opinion. I am not going to change your opinion but I ask you to give me an evidence that Islam is what you claim to be. and my beloved prophet's name is Mohammed it is not Mu-ha-Mad. you are crossing the line here. |
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