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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 8:57:37 GMT -6
You aren't even a Muslim. You're an American who is pretending. It is of no concern to me if no human considers me to be Muslim as only Allaah(swt) knows for certain who is a Muslim. I can only say I do my best to follow Islam. Then you are a Muhammadan. |
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Post by nabilbb on Sept 22, 2013 10:06:07 GMT -6
There is no such thing sky, there is only Muslim regardless what nationality the person is, he/she can be a Muslim, Christian or any other religion
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 22, 2013 10:15:06 GMT -6
It is of no concern to me if no human considers me to be Muslim as only Allaah(swt) knows for certain who is a Muslim. I can only say I do my best to follow Islam. Then you are a Muhammadan. A Muhammadan would be someone who worships Muhammad(saws) we are absolutely forbidden to do such. We are not even to celebrate his Birthday or the like. Some scholars insist we should not even visit his grave. We do not pray to Muhammad(saws) and we do not believe he started a religion. Muhammad(saws) did not write any revelations he was nothing more than the Messenger. He did not bring anything new nor form a religion. Islam is the act of submitting to God(swt). I am a Muslim I submit only to God(swt) It would be a grave sin to submit to Muhammad and that would be the unforgivable sin of shirk. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 11:02:34 GMT -6
Then you are a Muhammadan. A Muhammadan would be someone who worships Muhammad(saws) we are absolutely forbidden to do such. We are not even to celebrate his Birthday or the like. Some scholars insist we should not even visit his grave. We do not pray to Muhammad(saws) and we do not believe he started a religion. Muhammad(saws) did not write any revelations he was nothing more than the Messenger. He did not bring anything new nor form a religion. Islam is the act of submitting to God(swt). I am a Muslim I submit only to God(swt) It would be a grave sin to submit to Muhammad and that would be the unforgivable sin of shirk. If you follow Islam you follow Muhammad's teachings or you're faking. Islam submits to Muhammad's teachings for God. |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 22, 2013 11:59:06 GMT -6
A Muhammadan would be someone who worships Muhammad(saws) we are absolutely forbidden to do such. We are not even to celebrate his Birthday or the like. Some scholars insist we should not even visit his grave. We do not pray to Muhammad(saws) and we do not believe he started a religion. Muhammad(saws) did not write any revelations he was nothing more than the Messenger. He did not bring anything new nor form a religion. Islam is the act of submitting to God(swt). I am a Muslim I submit only to God(swt) It would be a grave sin to submit to Muhammad and that would be the unforgivable sin of shirk. If you follow Islam you follow Muhammad's teachings or you're faking. Islam submits to Muhammad's teachings for God. The Qur'an is not the teachings of Muhammad(saws) The Qur'an is the exact words of Allaah(swt) not the words of Muhammad(saws) Muhammad(saws) like all true Prophets was a Muslim. He did no more than speak what was revealed to him, not his own words. There was nothing new. the message of the Qur'an is the very same message that was given to Adam, Moses, Abraham, Jesus and all the Prophets.(PBUT) Nothing new. just a final repetition of what was given in the past. Our last chance to get it right and not mess it up again as we always did in the past. The Qur'an is the exact words of God(saws) When we hear the Qur'an recited with tajweed, we are hearing the very same words God(swt) spoke to the angel Gabrial and repeated to Muhammad(saws) We are not taught Islam, we learn Islam by listening to the Words of God(swt) |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 21:09:00 GMT -6
There is no such thing sky, there is only Muslim regardless what nationality the person is, he/she can be a Muslim, Christian or any other religion The point is that Islam and Christianity are not compatible. A person can not claim that they are a Christian if they don't believe that Christ was the promised Messiah. The one and only Son of God born of the virgin Mary and that He died on the cross resurrected and lives again for the forgiveness of sins. Christianity is not some wax nose that people can twist to make it fit whatever they want. The Holy Bible Old and New Testament is The Word of God. The Quran is NOT the Holy Bible. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 21:31:47 GMT -6
Then you are a Muhammadan. A Muhammadan would be someone who worships Muhammad(saws) we are absolutely forbidden to do such. We are not even to celebrate his Birthday or the like. Some scholars insist we should not even visit his grave. We do not pray to Muhammad(saws) and we do not believe he started a religion. Muhammad(saws) did not write any revelations he was nothing more than the Messenger. He did not bring anything new nor form a religion. Islam is the act of submitting to God(swt). I am a Muslim I submit only to God(swt) It would be a grave sin to submit to Muhammad and that would be the unforgivable sin of shirk. Muhammad does not teach what the Scriptures teach. Another thing is that the Son of God does not have a grave! 1 Corinthians 15:4
that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,Matthew 16:21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. John 2:20 They replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" Acts 2:24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. Acts 2:31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. Acts 26:22 But God has helped me to this very day; so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen-- |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 22, 2013 22:56:29 GMT -6
There is no such thing sky, there is only Muslim regardless what nationality the person is, he/she can be a Muslim, Christian or any other religion The point is that Islam and Christianity are not compatible. A person can not claim that they are a Christian if they don't believe that Christ was the promised Messiah. The one and only Son of God born of the virgin Mary and that He died on the cross resurrected and lives again for the forgiveness of sins. Christianity is not some wax nose that people can twist to make it fit whatever they want. The Holy Bible Old and New Testament is The Word of God. The Quran is NOT the Holy Bible. I agree the Qur'an is not the bible. I believe it is the actual word of God(swt) and written exactly as he revealed it. I do not believe any translation of the Qur'an is the exact word of God(swt) only the Qur'an spoken with tajweed is a true recitation of what God(swt) said. Christianity and Islam are not compatible we each believe the other is living in error. But there is no reason Christians and Muslims can not live alongside each other in Peace.There is no reason we can not allow each other to freely believe what we find to be true/ Why can we not all do as Surah 109 tells us to: Say, "O disbelievers, [1] I do not worship that which you worship, [2] nor do you worship the One whom I worship. [3] And neither I am going to worship that which you have worshipped, [4] nor will you worship the One whom I worship. [5] For you is your faith, and for me, my faith." [6] |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 13:08:40 GMT -6
The point is that Islam and Christianity are not compatible. A person can not claim that they are a Christian if they don't believe that Christ was the promised Messiah. The one and only Son of God born of the virgin Mary and that He died on the cross resurrected and lives again for the forgiveness of sins. Christianity is not some wax nose that people can twist to make it fit whatever they want. The Holy Bible Old and New Testament is The Word of God. The Quran is NOT the Holy Bible. I agree the Qur'an is not the bible. I believe it is the actual word of God(swt) and written exactly as he revealed it. I do not believe any translation of the Qur'an is the exact word of God(swt) only the Qur'an spoken with tajweed is a true recitation of what God(swt) said. Christianity and Islam are not compatible we each believe the other is living in error. But there is no reason Christians and Muslims can not live alongside each other in Peace.There is no reason we can not allow each other to freely believe what we find to be true/ Why can we not all do as Surah 109 tells us to: Say, "O disbelievers, [1] I do not worship that which you worship, [2] nor do you worship the One whom I worship. [3] And neither I am going to worship that which you have worshipped, [4] nor will you worship the One whom I worship. [5] For you is your faith, and for me, my faith." [6] So who is "Surah" also I don't see any peace in Islam only blood and revenge. To deny what we see with our own eyes captured on television the followers of Muhammad, the Muhammadists are blood thirsty revenge seekers. I do not see the word "peace" in your Surah quote and I do not see the Islam Muhammadists in the world today seeking to lead a peacful existence. |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 23, 2013 13:43:15 GMT -6
I agree the Qur'an is not the bible. I believe it is the actual word of God(swt) and written exactly as he revealed it. I do not believe any translation of the Qur'an is the exact word of God(swt) only the Qur'an spoken with tajweed is a true recitation of what God(swt) said. Christianity and Islam are not compatible we each believe the other is living in error. But there is no reason Christians and Muslims can not live alongside each other in Peace.There is no reason we can not allow each other to freely believe what we find to be true/ Why can we not all do as Surah 109 tells us to: Say, "O disbelievers, [1] I do not worship that which you worship, [2] nor do you worship the One whom I worship. [3] And neither I am going to worship that which you have worshipped, [4] nor will you worship the One whom I worship. [5] For you is your faith, and for me, my faith." [6] So who is "Surah" also I don't see any peace in Islam only blood and revenge. To deny what we see with our own eyes captured on television the followers of Muhammad, the Muhammadists are blood thirsty revenge seekers. I do not see the word "peace" in your Surah quote and I do not see the Islam Muhammadists in the world today seeking to lead a peacful existence. The Qur'an is divided into Juz, Surah and Ayyat A Surah corresponds close to what you call a Chapter. There are 114 Surahs in the Qur'an. I quoted Surah 109 which basically says We have our own faith and for us to let others have their faith. I put that up to show Christianity and Islam are seperate and each should let the other worship as they believe. The Media does not make a bid deal when Muslims seek Peace. It tends to focus on radicals and the evil doers that call them self Muslims but do not practice Islam. Here is one of the Best known Imams in the world. How often do you see the news Media Mention him? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 14:16:28 GMT -6
So who is "Surah" also I don't see any peace in Islam only blood and revenge. To deny what we see with our own eyes captured on television the followers of Muhammad, the Muhammadists are blood thirsty revenge seekers. I do not see the word "peace" in your Surah quote and I do not see the Islam Muhammadists in the world today seeking to lead a peacful existence. The Qur'an is divided into Juz, Surah and Ayyat A Surah corresponds close to what you call a Chapter. There are 114 Surahs in the Qur'an. I quoted Surah 109 which basically says We have our own faith and for us to let others have their faith. I put that up to show Christianity and Islam are seperate and each should let the other worship as they believe. The Media does not make a bid deal when Muslims seek Peace. It tends to focus on radicals and the evil doers that call them self Muslims but do not practice Islam. Here is one of the Best known Imams in the world. How often do you see the news Media Mention him? Who wrote that "surah" ? Also a Muslim can be a Christian but a Christian can NOT practise Islam...Hello! Honestly do you think I just came out of a cave? Your attempt to make the Muhommadist-Islamist-Korranists...look peaceful is decietful. One has only to look at history to see that Muhommadists like to play dumb about the violence and revenge present in their core teachings. |
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Post by Maggie on Sept 23, 2013 15:05:15 GMT -6
I think the problem is historical and deep-rooted. Even if Islam were the most peaceful religion on the planet, it has been co-opted by those who are cruel and barbaric. What just happened in the mall in Kenya? Shoppers were allowed to go if they could name Muhammad's mother or recite something from the Qur'an. If they couldn't, they were gunned down. Copts are being killed in Egypt and historic churches burned to the ground, often with worshippers inside.
It is perfectly possible that none of this can be defended from the Qur'an but Islam is thoroughly identified in the minds of outsiders with the cruelties of the Arab world, and everywhere else Islam is practiced. Is there a single Muslim country in the world that is peaceful? That extends full human rights to women and outsiders? Even one such example would help. If peace ever comes to the Muslim world, I foresee a long period of reclaiming Islam from those who have abused it.
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 23, 2013 17:23:36 GMT -6
I think the problem is historical and deep-rooted. Even if Islam were the most peaceful religion on the planet, it has been co-opted by those who are cruel and barbaric. What just happened in the mall in Kenya? Shoppers were allowed to go if they could name Muhammad's mother or recite something from the Qur'an. If they couldn't, they were gunned down. Copts are being killed in Egypt and historic churches burned to the ground, often with worshippers inside.
It is perfectly possible that none of this can be defended from the Qur'an but Islam is thoroughly identified in the minds of outsiders with the cruelties of the Arab world, and everywhere else Islam is practiced. Is there a single Muslim country in the world that is peaceful? That extends full human rights to women and outsiders? Even one such example would help. If peace ever comes to the Muslim world, I foresee a long period of reclaiming Islam from those who have abused it. What we see is of more recent times rather than being historical. If you look at the ages of the Christian Churches in the older Muslim Nations You will see a very long History of Christians and Muslims living together Peacefully. Todays violence has not existed since the Crudades and the Inquisition. As for Islam reclaiming from those who abused it. One must keep in mind Islam is not centralized. Each Muslim alone either follows or ignores Islam. While there are 49 nations that are predominately Muslim, there are no Islamic Nations. There are a few, 4 or 5, I think that claim to be. Most Muslim predominate Nations are very secular with little actual practice of Islam. One thing I think should be noted is that nearly all Muslim terrorists come from the Mideast. Although only about 10% of the World's Muslims are Mideastern. I think we need to look more at the conditions of the Mideast rather than thinking Violence and terrorism are part of Islam. |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 23, 2013 17:40:56 GMT -6
The Qur'an is divided into Juz, Surah and Ayyat A Surah corresponds close to what you call a Chapter. There are 114 Surahs in the Qur'an. I quoted Surah 109 which basically says We have our own faith and for us to let others have their faith. I put that up to show Christianity and Islam are seperate and each should let the other worship as they believe. The Media does not make a bid deal when Muslims seek Peace. It tends to focus on radicals and the evil doers that call them self Muslims but do not practice Islam. Here is one of the Best known Imams in the world. How often do you see the news Media Mention him? Who wrote that "surah" ? Also a Muslim can be a Christian but a Christian can NOT practise Islam...Hello! Honestly do you think I just came out of a cave? Your attempt to make the Muhommadist-Islamist-Korranists...look peaceful is decietful. One has only to look at history to see that Muhommadists like to play dumb about the violence and revenge present in their core teachings. Where do you get this from: A Muslim practicing Christianity would be committing the sin of Shirk. the only unforgivable sin and the only sin that condemns a person to eternal damnation. The Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad over a 23 year perion. Each Surah is a separate revelation, There were 114 revelations (Surahs) spoken By God(swt) and given to Muhammad(saws) by the Angel Gabial. I am aware there are violent people who call themself Muslim. But I have never personally met one, Not even when I was a Christian living in Muslim Nations. In the nations we are now seeing Christians being attacked I have lived in as a very vocal Christian Missionary and never was threatened or harmed. I openly preached Christianity in Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Morocco, Tunisia Libya and a few other Countries and made many Muslim Friends, but was never attacked or threatened for being a Christian. I do not know what happened in the Past 30 years but what I read today does not resemble the Muslims I knew in those nations. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 19:39:40 GMT -6
Who wrote that "surah" ? Also a Muslim can be a Christian but a Christian can NOT practise Islam...Hello! Honestly do you think I just came out of a cave? Your attempt to make the Muhommadist-Islamist-Korranists...look peaceful is decietful. One has only to look at history to see that Muhommadists like to play dumb about the violence and revenge present in their core teachings. Where do you get this from: A Muslim practicing Christianity would be committing the sin of Shirk. the only unforgivable sin and the only sin that condemns a person to eternal damnation. The Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad over a 23 year perion. Each Surah is a separate revelation, There were 114 revelations (Surahs) spoken By God(swt) and given to Muhammad(saws) by the Angel Gabial. I am aware there are violent people who call themself Muslim. But I have never personally met one, Not even when I was a Christian living in Muslim Nations. In the nations we are now seeing Christians being attacked I have lived in as a very vocal Christian Missionary and never was threatened or harmed. I openly preached Christianity in Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Morocco, Tunisia Libya and a few other Countries and made many Muslim Friends, but was never attacked or threatened for being a Christian. I do not know what happened in the Past 30 years but what I read today does not resemble the Muslims I knew in those nations. So...you're saying that the angel Gabriel and Muhommad had an ongoing dialog? And no, what we are discussing is Islam..and how Muhammidists are NOT peaceful and have NEVER been. You seem to be burying your head. |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 23, 2013 20:10:29 GMT -6
Where do you get this from: A Muslim practicing Christianity would be committing the sin of Shirk. the only unforgivable sin and the only sin that condemns a person to eternal damnation. The Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad over a 23 year perion. Each Surah is a separate revelation, There were 114 revelations (Surahs) spoken By God(swt) and given to Muhammad(saws) by the Angel Gabial. I am aware there are violent people who call themself Muslim. But I have never personally met one, Not even when I was a Christian living in Muslim Nations. In the nations we are now seeing Christians being attacked I have lived in as a very vocal Christian Missionary and never was threatened or harmed. I openly preached Christianity in Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Morocco, Tunisia Libya and a few other Countries and made many Muslim Friends, but was never attacked or threatened for being a Christian. I do not know what happened in the Past 30 years but what I read today does not resemble the Muslims I knew in those nations. So...you're saying that the angel Gabriel and Muhommad had an ongoing dialog? And no, what we are discussing is Islam..and how Muhammidists are NOT peaceful and have NEVER been. You seem to be burying your head. Gabriel spoke with Muhammad(saws) at least 114 times as there are 114 surat (Surat is plural of surah) Between 1959 and 1989 I lived in Islamic Nations as an American air force officer and later as an "Assembly of God" Missionary. No where during that time did I ever face any violence from Muslims although I hated Islam then and was doing my best to convert people away from Islam. I do read the news and do know there are people calling themselves Muslim that are committing violent acts. But none of them are following what I have seen Islam to be. I probably personally know several thousand Muslims from all parts of the world. Not one of them is violent. Do you personally know any violent Muslims? Not ones you see on the news or read about but actually know in person. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 20:28:17 GMT -6
So...you're saying that the angel Gabriel and Muhommad had an ongoing dialog? And no, what we are discussing is Islam..and how Muhammidists are NOT peaceful and have NEVER been. You seem to be burying your head. Gabriel spoke with Muhammad(saws) at least 114 times as there are 114 surat (Surat is plural of surah) Between 1959 and 1989 I lived in Islamic Nations as an American air force officer and later as an "Assembly of God" Missionary. No where during that time did I ever face any violence from Muslims although I hated Islam then and was doing my best to convert people away from Islam. I do read the news and do know there are people calling themselves Muslim that are committing violent acts. But none of them are following what I have seen Islam to be. I probably personally know several thousand Muslims from all parts of the world. Not one of them is violent. Do you personally know any violent Muslims? Not ones you see on the news or read about but actually know in person. Ugh! you tried to get people away from the teaching of Islam and now you follow Islam? No, I don't know personally any Islamists. That doesn't mean that they aren't violent. I don't trust anyone who follows the Koran. |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 23, 2013 20:59:43 GMT -6
Gabriel spoke with Muhammad(saws) at least 114 times as there are 114 surat (Surat is plural of surah) Between 1959 and 1989 I lived in Islamic Nations as an American air force officer and later as an "Assembly of God" Missionary. No where during that time did I ever face any violence from Muslims although I hated Islam then and was doing my best to convert people away from Islam. I do read the news and do know there are people calling themselves Muslim that are committing violent acts. But none of them are following what I have seen Islam to be. I probably personally know several thousand Muslims from all parts of the world. Not one of them is violent. Do you personally know any violent Muslims? Not ones you see on the news or read about but actually know in person. Ugh! you tried to get people away from the Muhammad teaching of Islam and now you follow the Muhammad Islam? No, I don't know personally any violent Muhammad Islamists. That doesn't mean that they aren't violent. I don't trust anyone who follows the Koran. after 45 years of being a Christian, 20 of them as a Preacher and Missionary, I felt I was living a lie and deceiving people by bringing them to Christianity. I lost all belief in god and became an Atheist until I was 65 years old. I did not return to God(swt) until I suddenly realized the Qur'an, that for 65 years, I believed was false. is truly the word of God. If you live in a large city in the US you probably know some Muslims and just do not know they are Muslims. Most Muslims in the USA are quiet about being Muslim and do not point out they are Muslim. Because I often serve as an Imam I deliberately make it obvious I am a Muslim by the way I dress. Although that does not always work as Islamic Sunnah Clothing like I wear, looks very Much like Traditional Sioux and Ojibwa clothing. Quite often strangers comment and say "You are the first Indian I ever saw with a Beard, what tribe do you belong to?" My wife who is Cheyenne wears traditional Cheyenne clothing, it meets the qualifications for Islamic sunnah clothing. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 21:21:41 GMT -6
Ugh! you tried to get people away from the Muhammad teaching of Islam and now you follow the Muhammad Islam? No, I don't know personally any violent Muhammad Islamists. That doesn't mean that they aren't violent. I don't trust anyone who follows the Koran. after 45 years of being a Christian, 20 of them as a Preacher and Missionary, I felt I was living a lie and deceiving people by bringing them to Christianity. I lost all belief in god and became an Atheist until I was 65 years old. I did not return to God(swt) until I suddenly realized the Qur'an, that for 65 years, I believed was false. is truly the word of God. If you live in a large city in the US you probably know some Muslims and just do not know they are Muslims. Most Muslims in the USA are quiet about being Muslim and do not point out they are Muslim. Because I often serve as an Imam I deliberately make it obvious I am a Muslim by the way I dress. Although that does not always work as Islamic Sunnah Clothing like I wear, looks very Much like Traditional Sioux and Ojibwa clothing. Quite often strangers comment and say "You are the first Indian I ever saw with a Beard, what tribe do you belong to?" My wife who is Cheyenne wears traditional Cheyenne clothing, it meets the qualifications for Islamic sunnah clothing. Probably the reason they don't point out that they are Muslim is because they don't want to be associated with the violence seen in the religion of Islam. Why you want to claim that violence is another issue. So you dress to look Muslim but you are American or American Indian. You are a mish mash of belief. Just like Muḥammad was. I don't care what you wear or how your beard looks if you follow the Koran as your Holy Book then you are not a Christian. |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Sept 23, 2013 21:47:25 GMT -6
after 45 years of being a Christian, 20 of them as a Preacher and Missionary, I felt I was living a lie and deceiving people by bringing them to Christianity. I lost all belief in god and became an Atheist until I was 65 years old. I did not return to God(swt) until I suddenly realized the Qur'an, that for 65 years, I believed was false. is truly the word of God. If you live in a large city in the US you probably know some Muslims and just do not know they are Muslims. Most Muslims in the USA are quiet about being Muslim and do not point out they are Muslim. Because I often serve as an Imam I deliberately make it obvious I am a Muslim by the way I dress. Although that does not always work as Islamic Sunnah Clothing like I wear, looks very Much like Traditional Sioux and Ojibwa clothing. Quite often strangers comment and say "You are the first Indian I ever saw with a Beard, what tribe do you belong to?" My wife who is Cheyenne wears traditional Cheyenne clothing, it meets the qualifications for Islamic sunnah clothing. Probably the reason they don't point out that they are Muslim is because they don't want to be associated with the violence seen in the religion of Islam. Why you want to claim that violence is another issue. So you dress to look Muslim but you are American or American Indian. You are a mish mash of belief. Just like Muḥammad was. I don't care what you wear or how your beard looks if you follow the Koran as your Holy Book then you are not a Christian. Most definitely not a Christian. Never will be one again. I do sincerly believe Islam and the Qur'an are all about Peace. It is by being a Muslim I have really learned to love Jesus(as) and give my life fully to God(swt) and only God(swt) After 65 years of thinking I knew Peace. I finally found true unshakable peace in the Qur'an. |
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