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Post by Maggie on Jan 9, 2014 19:37:26 GMT -6
I have discussed with some of you that I think we are having a hard time attracting new members because other social media are more attractive these days. It definitely doesn't help that there are a lot of religious (or irreligious) forums out there. I am not alone in that guess, apparently. Rumor has it that the talk at the SMF forum owners' group has been about the decreasing traffic at a lot of forums and there seems to be general agreement that new social media have a lot to do with that.
Over at Atheist Think Tank Hal has announced that he is closing the forum down. It gets virtually no traffic. His situation is unique, however, in that ATT first came into existence as a refuge for the original members of Why Won't God Heal Amputees when it crashed and burned in 2008 (I think it was). WWGHA came back online and most of the members came back. So Hal closed ATT. He brought it back to life about a year ago when he split with WWGHA but this time very few members followed. Its continued existence is more trouble and expense than seems worth it. As luck would have it, WWGHA needs to paid for again in a few days. If the owner lets it lapse, it will be gone permanently.
The discussion at both forums has turned on what to do. At ATT, someone could take over and pay for the domain and the hosting package. WWGHA presents a big problem in that some member or members would likely take it over but its current owner walked away several years ago and has made himself scarce. It is very possible that the plug will be pulled on Jan 14 and WWGHA will die.
I bring this up because the possible solutions that they are discussing interest me. Reddit is one. Reddit allows anyone to set up a "subgroup". They are public but I believe they can be private too. Here is what a subgroup looks like: www.reddit.com/r/WWGHA/ The major attraction of Reddit would seem to be that it is a huge community and it is relatively easy to interact with large numbers of other people. I must say that I hate the look and feel of it but I seem to be alone. Do any of you read anything there regularly? I ask because it reaches a substantially larger community than we can hope to now. It might be worth setting up a subgroup there that links back to the forum, for those who get interested in a topic we write about.
Another possibility being discussed is setting up a blog and tying it to Disqus. Are any of you familiar with Disqus? It has issues that alarm me but I really would like to hear from someone who is familiar with it and can give an informed opinion about it. I will be looking into it and reporting back if I get it figured out!
Essentially, it brings the people who comment on websites together in some way based on subject interests. But I have to do a better job of figuring that out!
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Post by Woodrow LI on Jan 9, 2014 20:20:35 GMT -6
I for one tend to like the "Feel" of forums as they tend to become more of an internet "Family". They may be slow growing, but over time they usually form a group nucleus that holds it together and the overall membership rises and falls like the tide.
The Forum I have been a member on the longest is islamicboard.com the largest forum is citydata.com the newest is here. The other 3 Forums I belong to are IGI, christianforums.com and ummah.com
Each has a special meaning to me and each is like a cyber family.
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Post by Maggie on Jan 9, 2014 20:47:24 GMT -6
Yes, I agree. I just read a really well-written post on the subject over at WWGHA. I think the author makes an excellent point that the web is moving on and that forums are likely to become special interest groups. Here is a snippet: The internet used to be silos of information (site pages, blogs and forums) from one domain to the next, but things have changed dramatically in the past 5 years. The web tools available have turned the internet into matrices of information (the cross-referencing and integration of topics, sites, users, etc). While blogs and forums still exist, I think forums will continue to shrink until they serve only a core audience that eschews change or highly specialized audiences such as product support, blocked content (ie porn) or topics where the web interests of the users are quite narrow, maybe people who are Jeep fanatics or NFL fans. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 15:45:39 GMT -6
Hello STK members,
This particular thread title caught my eye, as I have faced similar struggles in maintaining a discussion board. It is increasingly difficult to maintain forum populations let alone recruit members, so you have my sympathies.
Ten years ago, religion discussion boards thrived on every virtual corner. I refuse to believe that people are less interested in the topic or less willing to discuss it. This leaves me with a couple or possibilities to explain the precipitous decline in such boards (including a once thriving debate oriented religion board which I recently moved to pro boards in order to save it from the scrap heap--out of respect, I won't name it here--I only mean to say that we are in the same boat):
1. People are still interested in this sort of thing, but lack the time.
2. We have all made this sort of thing less interesting than it used to be.
I submit that both are equally possible. However, if the first is true, there really isn't much to do but to accept our fate and concede that one of our cherished internet pastimes is going away. For this reason, I have been giving considerable thought to the latter.
My theory is that we have killed the neighborhood by subdividing it. For my part, I have pitched my tent in a community that does not privilege belief in the discussion--nothing is beyond debate. Otherwise put, sacred cows make for good hamburger. On your side, it seems (to my eye) that you have chosen to privilege faith by eliminating arguments on the basic ideas of theism. In so doing, we have both unwittingly created idea ghettoes where the tenants have much in common, but little to say, only to discover that comfortable silence is nicer face to face than it is online.
I'm not offering a solution. You can probably understand why many non-believers don't see much point in a discussion which assumes and protects a theistic worldview. I understand why some believers don't enjoy having their most cherished and experientially validated ideas dragged through the mud. I am only saying, "it was not always thus", and that the foot traffic was better when it wasn't. This raises the third possibility:
3. The novelty has worn off. IOW, we want to want the unfettered discussions, but we tire of them when granted our wish.
I don't know that I'll stick around too long--I'm playing the role of an atheistic Nehemiah, working day and night to restore my own city--but I sympathize with your plight and I am genuinely interested in what you think.
Cheers, FB
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Post by Maggie on Feb 6, 2014 20:09:56 GMT -6
My theory is that we have killed the neighborhood by subdividing it. For my part, I have pitched my tent in a community that does not privilege belief in the discussion--nothing is beyond debate. Otherwise put, sacred cows make for good hamburger. On your side, it seems (to my eye) that you have chosen to privilege faith by eliminating arguments on the basic ideas of theism. In so doing, we have both unwittingly created idea ghettoes where the tenants have much in common, but little to say, only to discover that comfortable silence is nicer face to face than it is online. ... I'm not offering a solution. You can probably understand why many non-believers don't see much point in a discussion which assumes and protects a theistic worldview. I understand why some believers don't enjoy having their most cherished and experientially validated ideas dragged through the mud. I am only saying, "it was not always thus", and that the foot traffic was better when it wasn't. This raises the third possibility: Cheers, FB Hi Flitzerbiest: I agree with much of what you say. In my opinion, the sheer number of theist, theist/atheist and atheist forums does make it hard to stand out in any way or present a fresh way of looking at questions. But actually that has never been our mission. We are a spin-off from Is God Imaginary which used to maintain a really good mix of perspectives. But the atheist contingent began to predominate and, as always, became ruder and more aggressive with every thread they succeeded in derailing. Finally I had had it. Atheists can't drag our ideas through the mud; they are solid. But they can derail threads with mockery, and insults. So I and a couple of others started this forum more as a subgroup, than an independent forum. But it is one we control so we can prevent trolls from derailing threads. In reality, we have only had to deal with one problem child so far. What seems to have happened here is that we have become a flog! Or do I mean blorum? A mix of forum and blog. We can each write about anything we want. What we want to say may not engender much discussion but it makes putting ideas out there attractive. I do not know if we will grow much larger. I am not very wise in the ways of marketing us and making sure Google indexes us, etc. I do know that if we had half as many members as we have regularly visiting spiders, we would be huge! In any case, you are welcome to drop in as much or as little as you like. If you have something on your chest, please take advantage of the potential of the blog to write as passionate or calm an "essay" as you like. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 17:32:17 GMT -6
I never heard of IGI, nor am I advocating that this forum be anything other than what you want it to be. I am just interested in the remarkable difference in the ability to recruit to forums like yours (and mine) compared to ten years ago. Incidentally, if I haven't run across WWGHA, I am certainly familiar with the question--it is a staple in God debates.
Anyway, my experience may be far different from yours, but I have seen several good forums killed by over moderation. It seems (again, in my limited experience which probably doesn't overlap with yours), that people get put off quickly when they perceive that their expression is being constrained unreasonably. Part of it is mechanistic--if forums had a "time out" function that allowed people to chill a bit without being banned, it would probably lead to more self-regulation.
Just my $0.02.
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Post by Woodrow LI on Feb 8, 2014 20:42:23 GMT -6
Generally a religion forum attracts a very narrow audience. typically only 2 types show interest. those who are adherents of the religion and those who are adamantly opposed to it. the result is more stringent moderation. Pretty much requires a zero tolerance policy.
the most lenient and usually the most attractive is to have different section that permit discussion of other world rules. but, even then religious forums tend to become magnets for trolls.
While religious forum are slow growing they do seem to eventually establish a solid member base.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 21:54:46 GMT -6
Generally a religion forum attracts a very narrow audience. typically only 2 types show interest. those who are adherents of the religion and those who are adamantly opposed to it. the result is more stringent moderation. Pretty much requires a zero tolerance policy. the most lenient and usually the most attractive is to have different section that permit discussion of other world rules. but, even then religious forums tend to become magnets for trolls. While religious forum are slow growing they do seem to eventually establish a solid member base. Well, let's all hope so. |
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Post by Maggie on Feb 9, 2014 1:46:02 GMT -6
I have been meaning to ask-- your user name means something like "streaking beast" in German. have I got that right? It is an interesting choice no matter what.
In any case, I wanted to say that I have seen badly moderated forums too. Forums that maintain iron control of what gets said and by whom. But, unfortunately, that hasn't hurt them. What they do is weed out the types they don't want and retain the ones they do. WWGHA is a good example of that. They don't want theists and drive them out by deleting their posts for non-existent rule violations, insisting as a *rule* that the theist must answer all questions put to him- no matter how stupid, no matter how redundant. Since they pile on the few theists who join, the theist will have 8-10 atheists asking multiple questions. There aren't very many who will stand that treatment for long. But that is a large and active forum with a lot of members.
So, it seems to me that there is one more variable that has to be considered. Successful forums seem to have personalities and attract a core group of those who think alike. The fact that we wanted to have a membership of many kinds of theists (polytheists too) may mean that we don't have a strong enough identity that potential members can relate to. Or at least, that is what I think at 1 a.m.!
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Post by Woodrow LI on Feb 9, 2014 1:50:15 GMT -6
Generally a religion forum attracts a very narrow audience. typically only 2 types show interest. those who are adherents of the religion and those who are adamantly opposed to it. the result is more stringent moderation. Pretty much requires a zero tolerance policy. the most lenient and usually the most attractive is to have different section that permit discussion of other world rules. but, even then religious forums tend to become magnets for trolls. While religious forum are slow growing they do seem to eventually establish a solid member base. Well, let's all hope so. The largest Religious forum I am on began with 4 College students. It took nearly 2 years to get up to 100 members, I joined in the 2nd year and watched much of the growth.. Now it has over 30,000 members and averages about 200 visitors at any given time. Took 9 years to get there but it did |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 8:05:39 GMT -6
I have been meaning to ask-- your user name means something like "streaking beast" in German. have I got that right? Probably. I was going for "Scooter beast" (after my dog), but I don't speak German. Google translate and a guess. |
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Post by Maggie on Feb 9, 2014 8:49:30 GMT -6
That works. Flitzen means streak, whiz, scurry etc. Cool name.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 18:50:39 GMT -6
The largest Religious forum I am on began with 4 College students. It took nearly 2 years to get up to 100 members, I joined in the 2nd year and watched much of the growth.. Now it has over 30,000 members and averages about 200 visitors at any given time. Took 9 years to get there but it did 30,000. Wow. Sometimes success can feel like failure. I'd be pleased just to restore what we lost. Maggie--thanks for the German consult. I never knew if it was accurate, but it sounds funny. Scooter's long since donated the name to me as my internet persona. |
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Post by Woodrow LI on Feb 9, 2014 19:15:26 GMT -6
The largest Religious forum I am on began with 4 College students. It took nearly 2 years to get up to 100 members, I joined in the 2nd year and watched much of the growth.. Now it has over 30,000 members and averages about 200 visitors at any given time. Took 9 years to get there but it did 30,000. Wow. Sometimes success can feel like failure. I'd be pleased just to restore what we lost. Maggie--thanks for the German consult. I never knew if it was accurate, but it sounds funny. Scooter's long since donated the name to me as my internet persona. Both your Forum and this one have all the necessary ingrediants for diversity and growth. It just takes time for Religious/Philosophical type forums to establish a solid member base. Once the magic 100 member plateau is reached, growth seems to skyrocket. I suspect that is because of the way Google works. If about 25 to 30 members keep the same username on several forums, you end up with a tremendous amount of cross-linking on Google searches. End result is more members. Although I have found the majority of members tend to be lurkers and seem reluctant to post. But if about 10% of the members post at least once daily, that seems to be sufficient to generate growth. |
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