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Post by nabilbb on Dec 17, 2013 15:19:31 GMT -6
I didn't know where to post this, but mods please move it to the section you see it fit
So, I know this question has been asked a lot and it has been answered a lot, but I am interested to hear from Woodrow and Maggie or anyone who wants to answer this.
How do you reconcile between a Merciful God and the creation of Hellfire, Diseases, earth quakes, .....etc.?
let's focus on the bolded one first
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Post by Maggie on Dec 17, 2013 15:51:47 GMT -6
In Christianity there are only two possible outcomes at death: life with God or life without Him. Life without God is hell. It is chosen by the person who has rejected God. God sends no one who loves him and asks for His mercy away empty-handed. Hell and heaven are not places; they are states of being.
There is no comprehensive description of hell given in the New Testament but since the absence of God is the absence of light, love, friendship, kindness, and every good thing we can imagine, hell would have to be terrible. Without the resurrection of our bodies which will be part of the joy of the saved, there is nothing to receive or feel physical pain. So I am inclined to believe that "hell fire" is a metaphor. There is also a place in the New Testament in which Jesus talks of the hell fires prepared for Satan and his angels. So that suggests that there might be a place of torment that is reserved, not for humans, but for the rebellious angels.
Bottom line? We aren't told enough in scripture to know the details with any certainty. But really, why would anyone choose an eternal life without God over the joy offered to us who love Him and are being saved?
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Post by nabilbb on Dec 17, 2013 16:00:53 GMT -6
Fair enough Maggie,
So how do you reconcile between a merciful God and Diseases, earth quakes, natural disasters, ...etc.?
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Post by Maggie on Dec 17, 2013 19:22:41 GMT -6
I am not sure that anyone can say anything to make earthquakes, tsunamis, and all the natural disasters that plague our poor world acceptable to us. Yet what we call natural disasters have played a critical role for millions of years in forming the earth we find ourselves on. I don't know how else it could have happened. If we imagine a God who raises mountains without disturbing the earth or who forms continents by waving his hand, that would be a world in which there were no earth sciences because we could never know how He did it. We would simply know that, seemingly at random, a mountain appeared where there used to be flat land. We would be very different sorts of creatures, too. We were given the earth to subdue and cultivate. But there could be very little of that in a world which God daily shaped and molded.
As far as disease is concerned, this is painfully hard to discuss. It is one thing to talk about it when we and those we love are well. But how hard it is when they are not! Sometimes, when our actions have predictable outcomes, we can accept disease. So lung cancer killed my mother at the age of 50. She smoked and she knew the risks. As hard as that time was, the cancer was not a total surprise. But what about a child who develops leukemia? Or a 16 year old who dies of cardiac failure at high school football practice? I know of nothing one can say about such things except this. God loves each of us, my mother, the 16 year old, the child with leukemia more than you or I or anyone could. They are his children and dear to him. We cannot know why these things happen but we can be sure that what happened to them is not meaningless. If nothing else, it should make us consider how fragile life is and so encourage us to orient our actions and desires in the right direction.
There is a mystery here that I cannot resolve. Christians believe that by suffering and dying voluntarily, Christ conquered death once for all. Just as he conquered death by his Resurrection, so shall we all who have trusted in his friendship. Paul puts it this way in his letter to the Corinthians (15:53-55):
For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When this perishable body puts on imperishability, and this mortal body puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will be fulfilled:
“Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
“Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
If you like Baroque music here is Handel's duet from Messiah which uses those verses:
I sing it all the time, when I am sad. The choir responds to those words with "Thanks be to God, who's given us the victory through our Lord, Jesus Christ". I always weep like a baby, as one must in the face of such a gift.
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Post by nabilbb on Jan 7, 2014 10:49:44 GMT -6
Reviving this for Woodrow and Kevin
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Post by Woodrow LI on Jan 7, 2014 12:12:13 GMT -6
Jazakallahu Khairan for reviving this.
Hellfire is a matter of choice. We all make the personal choice of selecting Gehanna or Jahnnah. The choice is our own.
As for disasters, diseases, calamities, Plagues etc. Our trial is to live a physical life in a physical world. The physical world is no Jahnnah and is subject to all the whims of the laws of physics. Simple fact of life. Good and bad things happen simply as a natural occurrence. If it is possible for something to happen it will happen. If it is good or bad it plays no favorites. Bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad people. Our trial is what we choose to do as a result of life.
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