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Post by questionmark on Aug 20, 2013 19:32:23 GMT -6
I want to come up with a working list of things that most if not all theists consider right thought.
1. A higher power
2. a miracles
b. wonders
c. interruptions or violations or manipulations of the laws of physics
d. coincidences so specific and unlikely that they must be the result of a higher power
3. The need to take a higher power and/or signal miracles seriously
4. objective fact
5. objective moral truth
So, topic for discussion. Do all 'theists' believe in objective moral truth, that is that every moral action has an ultimate judge or judges that will determine whether that action was right or wrong?
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Post by Maggie on Aug 20, 2013 19:38:01 GMT -6
I would say basically yes. But I do not believe that judges need to decide anything. We know, if our consciences are correctly formed, whether an action is right or wrong. At least, I cannot imagine being taken by surprise at having a particular action judged differently than I judged it.
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Post by questionmark on Aug 20, 2013 20:21:08 GMT -6
I think there's a big gap there as to whether our consciences are correctly formed, because to a large degree we influence our own consciences by behavior...
repeatedly doing what is wrong will corrupt the conscience.
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Post by Woodrow LI on Aug 20, 2013 22:05:24 GMT -6
I agree with the 5 on the list and think some more can be added.
6. A belief in Prophets
7. Belief in a Resurrection
8. Belief in a final Judgement day
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Meat
New Member
Posts: 19 
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Post by Meat on Aug 20, 2013 22:11:59 GMT -6
Uhh.......
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Post by jstwebbrowsing on Aug 20, 2013 22:26:16 GMT -6
1. Revelation
2. A desire to live in peace. Not sure if this is really theological, but most people desire peace.
This is tricky. I do believe there is an ultimate judge of morality and he has given his judgement but I don't think he keeps a running tally of sins that someday he is going to recount to us. But I do believe in objective moral truth. It seems a lot of thests do, but I'm not sure if it's most or all. I think judgement is for the "wicked", that is, the unrepentant.
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Post by francis on Aug 21, 2013 12:13:34 GMT -6
This is tricky. I do believe there is an ultimate judge of morality and he has given his judgement but I don't think he keeps a running tally of sins that someday he is going to recount to us. But I do believe in objective moral truth. It seems a lot of theists do, but I'm not sure if it's most or all. I think judgement is for the "wicked", that is, the unrepentant. Hello jstwebbrowsing... Maybe I didn't understand what you wrote, but I'm not sure how someone can be a theist and yet NOT believe in objective moral truth since the two seem to me... necessarily go together. Unless you are speaking of a theism that is not Christian theism. But even then, I would like to know what theist... who is not a Christian theist... would believe in God, and yet believe that no objective moral truth exists apart from the God they do believe in. Or maybe you were trying to differentiate the difference between "objective moral truth" and "judgment for the unrepentant". In which case, I would have said that "objective moral truth" is a different topic alltogether than "judgment" or "keeping a running tally of sins". That is to say... imho, "objective moral truth" exists apart from whether or not... or even how... God may wish to handle the "judgment" aspect of His personality... and apart from whether or not grace is involved in the equation involving "judgment". Anyway... I might have simply not understood what you were trying to say... and apologize if I have misunderstood your point. Best Regards Francis |
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Post by jstwebbrowsing on Aug 21, 2013 14:09:37 GMT -6
Hey Francis, good to see you.
I mentioned keeping a tally of sins because of the way the question was worded.
It says, "that will determine". It's possible I misunderstood but that seems to imply there will be a future judgement, meaning a running tally of sins would be kept. I think moral actions have already been determined and made known by God. No future judgement is needed in that manner. We could not be good or bad otherwise. Condemnation comes immediately, not in the future, and this is done on the basis of Jesus' life and ministry. This is my opinion, anyway.
As far as all theists believing in objective moral truth, I would expect them all to believe in it, but people never cease to amaze me. So I have to be careful about what I say. I think that some theists have larger gray areas than others. So I think some believe in more objective moral truth than others.
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