|
|
Post by Maggie on Nov 26, 2013 20:41:29 GMT -6
Illusion made a very good suggestion that we talk a little bit about where we are coming from "spiritually" so as to get to know one another better. I will start since he and I are talking about whether God exists and related matters.
I grew up in an agnostic/weakly atheistic home. Both of my parents had been raised in Catholic homes and both ditched it in their late teens. My mother retained an interest in supernatural matters, however. But she got interested in Ouija boards, psychics, and the like. I just dismissed it all as nonsense as did my father.
Years later I went off to graduate school to study for an M.A. in German. I had a teaching assistantship and, as luck would have it, of my 10 fellow T.A.s 5 were Christians--mostly conservative evangelicals of one variety or another and one practicing Greek Orthodox. We used to have many great discussions about God and while I wasn't about to budge from my atheism, our talks were always enjoyable because we really liked one another. More importantly, their example was irresistible. They were kind, happy, and had something very endearing about them. After we got our degrees I went to the mid-west to study for a PH.D in German. As luck would have it, I stopped at Purdue for a semester to study something else. One of my TA friends had a friend with a house there and I lived with her while I was in West Lafayette. She was a serious Christian and I ended up converting to evangelical Christianity while there.
I left there to go on and study for another degree in German. I continued to worship in conservative evangelical churches for the next decade or so but I was increasingly dismayed by how superficial the understanding of Christianity seemed. I had started to specialize in my degree program and was studying the medieval mystics and their literature. That put me on a collision course with Catholicism. As a Protestant I already had plenty of reservations about the RC and it took me a full decade to get past them. I might never have done so but for the arrival of Pope John Paul II aka the Great on the scene. For those too young to remember the early days of his papacy it is hard to describe how powerful his personality was, how powerful his intellect and how kind his disposition. I read a book of his at some point in those early days, put it down and realized that I wanted what the RCC offered. It took a number of years more to get past all my prejudices but the time came that I could honestly say that I profess and believe all that the Catholic Church professes and believes. Although I attended mass exclusively for a full decade, I wasn't received into the Church until 4 years ago. I am not one to do things in a hurry!
|
|
|
|
Post by Woodrow LI on Nov 28, 2013 5:57:58 GMT -6
My path goes from deeply religious to Atheist back to being deeply religious.
For the first 25 years or so I was a very solid Catholic. Born in a Catholic family, in a predominately Catholic community. Went the whole 9 yards. Alter Boy, CYO. Sacred Heart Society, Knights of Columbus and a seminarian. My one semester as a seminarian begann my drifting away from Catholicism.
My next step was about 20 years as a fundamentalist, AOG, (Assembly of God) Preacher, Evangelist, Missionary. During that era and coming to realize I did not believe most of what I was spreading as a Missionary was my path to Atheism,
My next 20 years were spent fluctuating between Agnosticism and Atheism. During that era I became quite deeply involved in philosophy, A subject i found to be boring in my college years. I pretty much lived a life based upon Buddhism with a touch of Hinduism and a thrown in smattering of Native American Shamanism. I still am much of a naturalist and do prefer living a life close to the earth and in tune with Nature.
My jump to Islam was the most unexpected leap I have taken. I was basically very anti-Islamic and believed most of the media hype. Although I had read the Qur'an numerous times I did so primarily as a study of classical Arabic and not in terms of a religious text.
Up until the moment of my saying the Shahadah I never considered the idea of being a Muslim. Without going deeply, after at least 30 years of not speaking or reading Arabic I came across my old Qur'an that I had used as literature guide while learning Arabic. I began reading it and for the first time I read for context and not as a linguistic study. I was overwhelmed. It was like the words were glowing and I was feeling a warmth from them. I could not stop reading and I read non-stop from cover to cover at least 3 or 4 times. To read the Qur'an with proper tajweed it takes 30 hours to read. After over 3 days of non-stop reading I knew I was a Muslim and immediately said the shahada with only Allaah(swt) as my witness. There is no ritual to become a Muslim. Every Person who has said the shahadah, with sincerity, at least once in his life time is a Muslim.
My primary endeavors in Islam are 3 tasks I am trying to complete.
1. Become Hafiz (Memorize the Qur'an.) I sometimes think I am a hopeless case. Most people become Hafiz in about 3 years. I been trying for at least 6 years and have not even memorized as much as 1 Juz, (The Qur'an is divided into 30 Juz.)
2. Develop a working knowledge of the 4 madhabs, (Islamic Jurisprudence) what Sharia actually is, not what the media calls Sharia.. I hope to obtain at least a Bachelors Degree in Islamic Jurisprudence. Although it would take a Ph.D to ever practice as a lawyer. But I do not desire to go that far. My working years are over. I'm doing a little better here than I am with my Hafiz studies. I do have a working knowledge of the Hanafi Madhab and at least know the major differences between the 4 madhabs.
3. Become a Scholar in the "Science of Hadith, which is what I seem to spend most of my time doing. I'm still an amateur, There are at least 100 different disciplines of Hadith study. I still haven't even decided which discipline to study.
|
|
|
|
Post by illusion on Dec 3, 2013 2:50:03 GMT -6
I was born into a Catholic family. My mom wanted to leave Catholicism, but was too afraid to talk to her parents about it. We stopped going to Catholic church after my first communion, but kept it a secret from my grandparents. I was 13 when I was saved in my Baptist church. I had gone to Baptist private schooling for my education. After I graduated, my attendance at church dropped off dramatically, not so much because my faith had faltered in anyway. It was more that I was bored with the sermons. There wasn't anything new. I had heard the same sermons my whole life.
When I was 21 I joined the Army and met people of other faiths, Baha'i, Muslim, pagan... Most of the people I was around were either atheist or non-active Christians. Some of them would challenge me on my beliefs, which I was defensive about. At the same time, there were others that had, what I considered to be wild, off the wall beliefs. I had a soldier that worked under me try to convince me his grandfather's house was haunted. Many people I met were superstitious. The exposure I got from the Army allowed me to see how different everyone's beliefs were.
I got married two years after leaving the Army. My wife is a Non-denominational Christian. After a few years into my marriage I became deeply interested in Christian apologetics. I spent a few years reading various books by Christian apologists and their atheist counterparts. Through this process I discovered skepticism. And, it was through the lens of skepticism that I began to question my own beliefs. After diligently searching for reasons why we should accept the Christian faith, I found that all the Christian arguments were based on subjective non-testable claims. In the end, I found these claims very unconvincing, and found that I was no longer convinced there was anything true in the Christian faith. That was when I began to consider myself an atheist. Since that time family and friends have been engaging me to show me that the Christian faith is true. To date, I haven't found any better arguments then the same subjective arguments I've heard before. I'm still to continuing to engage with others on these topics, and that is how I've ended up engaging others online.
|
|
|
|
Post by Maggie on Dec 3, 2013 7:29:02 GMT -6
Very interesting. We have all come to our positions in some very different ways. I am intrigued by the variety of people you met in the army. That is an experience that most people don't get to have. I think Woodrow might have something to say on that subject, too, since he is ex-military and had a long career as I recall in the military before leaving.
|
|
|
|
Post by Woodrow LI on Dec 3, 2013 11:04:23 GMT -6
Very interesting. We have all come to our positions in some very different ways. I am intrigued by the variety of people you met in the army. That is an experience that most people don't get to have. I think Woodrow might have something to say on that subject, too, since he is ex-military and had a long career as I recall in the military before leaving. For various reasons my military career was cut short. but did spend 7 years active duty 3 years as commissioned and 4 years as enlisted. Was quite interesting. It was my first direct contact with people that did not practice any religion. Also My first contact with non-Christians besides Judaism (I have Jewish relatives) My result was to become drawn to Fundamentalist Christianity. I think when a person comes to the realization that being in the military means you job is to kill people it has an effect and one needs to find a way to insulate them self from the thought they are expected to do what they see as a horrendous sin. When I was flying it was much easier as I did not see faces, only map co-ordinates. When I became a ground soldier, the world changed. Then I had to come to terms with the concept of "Kill'em all, let God do the sorting" a hard thing. GIs have to become either deeply religious and find a religious way to justify the horror or atheistic and develop a method to accept it as a fact of life. Also with all military comes the realization you can die in this job. This leads to a tight bonding that seems to become even stronger than any religious belief. A military career does influence one's later choices in life and does cause one to meet people outside their culture. |
|
|
|
Post by illusion on Dec 3, 2013 11:23:16 GMT -6
A military career does influence one's later choices in life and does cause one to meet people outside their culture. I fully agree. It wasn't just that I was around people with different beliefs. It was that we were connected to each other. We all shared a common bond. And, when you have a bond with people that you have always been told you are to stay away from or (in some sects) are evil, it changes how you see them. I'm still very close to soldiers I worked with even though we're spread across the country and we all have our own families and careers. We still keep in touch and see each other from time to time. While I was in active duty, I did become more focused on going to church and reading the Bible. It might have had to do with looking for stability or assurance. Between active duty and the National Guard I was in service for a total of ten years, but never was deployed. |
|
