|
Post by jstwebbrowsing on Sept 13, 2013 10:44:48 GMT -6
No I do not believe Christ is God, nor do I believe the Bible teaches that he is. I believe he is God's son.
|
|
|
Post by nabilbb on Sept 13, 2013 10:48:29 GMT -6
No I do not believe Christ is God, nor do I believe the Bible teaches that he is. I believe he is God's son. Why god needs children then?
|
|
|
Post by jstwebbrowsing on Sept 13, 2013 10:58:24 GMT -6
He doesn't. God doesn't need anything. But anyone he creates, he becomes the father of. Not in the same sense as human parents but because he created Christ. The Bible says all Christians are children of God, but this is by adoption. Christ was not adopted. He was created directly by God. That is why he is called the only begotten son.
|
|
|
Post by nabilbb on Sept 13, 2013 11:04:30 GMT -6
He doesn't. God doesn't need anything. But anyone he creates, he becomes the father of. Not in the same sense as human parents but because he created Christ. The Bible says all Christians are children of God, but this is by adoption. Christ was not adopted. He was created directly by God. That is why he is called the only begotten son. so, What you are saying is, Jesus is the son of God as we are all the children of god. if that is the case, I couldn't agree more
|
|
|
Post by jstwebbrowsing on Sept 13, 2013 11:26:38 GMT -6
Yes that is what I believe however I also believe that Christ was anointed king of God's kingdom so he was granted a tremendous amount of authority that the rest of us do not have. Whatever authority we have is what our king allows us to have. Of course, his rulership revolves around obedience to God. So whatever God wants, Christ does. So Christ is not the ultimate ruler of the kingdom. Just like the ancient kings of Israel ruled for God, Christ does the same. The only difference is that Christ is perfectly obedient to God, whereas those other kings were not.
I also believe that Christ sacrificed his earthly life as a ransom sacrifice for those that would become subjects of his kingdom.
|
|
|
Post by questionmark on Sept 13, 2013 22:53:46 GMT -6
Nabilbb, I think your ideas about God knowing things without experiencing them is strange. But, I don't know how to get across to you that God knows everything. You keep saying God knows about everything, but doesn't experience it. Experience is a type of knowledge, so if you don't have an experience then you don't have that type of knowledge. So if God does not know the experience of hellfire, God does not know hellfire. He only knows 'about' hellfire. It's like saying you know Barack Obama but you've never met him. You don't know him, you only know about him. That is, facts surrounding or pertaining to him. In ancient language, to truly know someone you know everything about them, that's why sexual intimacy was considered 'knowing'. There's not much closer intimacy for two humans than to have a sexual relationship, because they take off their clothes and there's nothing to hide. Of course there are some non-physical things they hide, like their minds. But surely you would say God knows a man's thoughts. If God knows a man's thoughts, then God knows all of the suffering of mankind, because he knows their thoughts of suffering. It's really really strange for you to say God knows everything except for suffering, because suffering is a type of knowledge. Does God know what the color blue is? (Blue is a sensation just like many types of suffering are sensations).
Abraham and Moses were prophets, but their job was sequential. Abraham is the father of those who believe, the one God chose out of all the nations to bring the Messiah into the world. He gave him (who was barren and old) a miraculous promise concerning a son pointing forward to another one of his offspring (a son of miraculous promise: Jesus). Moses gave the Law of how Abraham's people should live in the promised land, and how the whole world could learn from them, he taught them about sacrifices and sin. God gave us Abraham and Moses to prepare us for Jesus, just like He gave John the Baptist. Every prophet is to prepare the way for Jesus. But you asked why didn't he stop giving prophets and just give us Jesus. That's exactly what he did. There has not been a prophet since Jesus. And before John the Baptist there had been 400 years of no prophets. God only sent prophets to prepare the way for Jesus. Even in the beginning of the Bible there is a word of Jesus, God says "And I will cause hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel." And when God is finished talking to them he gives them the skin of an animal for covering instead of the fig leaves that they used. God killed an animal in order to cover their sin.
In Jesus we have the promised son of Abraham, the Prophet and Priest of Moses, the King of David, the offspring of Eve, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, sacrificed once for all time. Jesus took the wrath of God for ALL sin, not for one or many sins. He earned the right to judge the world, every single sin committed. Jesus is the prophet, priest, king, savior, and judge of the whole world.
|
|
|
Post by nabilbb on Sept 16, 2013 11:11:17 GMT -6
questionmarkLooks like we are moving in circles and endless loop, We both agree that God is all knowing, but We differ in how God knows things. You also seem to scape/ignore some of the questions I asked instead keep repeating the same point over and over. so I am going to ask only 1 question here you said that God is all knowing, also in order for him to know, He has to experience things. you also said, He suffered in order for him to know what is suffering, He was tortured in order for him to know what is pain,....etc. since We said God is all knowing, He must also know the flip side of the coin, Does he know what is it like to be the torturer? Does He know what is it like to be an oppressor? was God a torturer and oppressor?
|
|
|
Post by questionmark on Sept 16, 2013 11:54:10 GMT -6
nabilbb, I feel the same way about your answers :) That's what happen when people don't understand each other. And, it's a good idea to focus on one thing at a time when that is the case.
In the Bible, God condemns people to hell because it is what they deserve, it is justice. So of course God knows what it's like to be the torturer or tormentor. The worst torment is the torment by God of those who escaped torment in this life by hiding, lying, or running away from justice. When you murder a man, rape a woman, disobey your parents, or lie about God you are hell, but God uses evildoers for His purpose, so He does not instantly send a man to hell. He uses the man's hellish ways to demonstrate God's glory.
But I think you are asking a different question. Does God know what it's like to UNJUSTLY cause pain. To wrongly cause pain, without a good reason. A police officer can subdue a criminal and cause pain for good reason. So can a surgeon, or even a masseuse. But a sinner causes pain for no good reason.
Does God know what it's like to cause pain for no good reason? No, because even the sinner does not know what it's like to cause pain for no good reason. That's not a type of knowledge. It's like asking does God know what it's like when 1+1=3. But that's not knowledge. We have the same problem when we say that something is cold... there is a feeling that something is cold, but there is no such thing as cold. Cold is the absence of heat. Dark is the absence of light. Darkness isn't a thing in itself, but only in contrast to light.
Sin isn't a thing in itself, it is the absence of good. So does God know what it's like to do some moral action without a good reason? Yes, God knows what it is to do something without a good reason, and He calls it sin. Does this make God a sinner? Well, God hasn't actually done anything sinful. So how can we call him a sinner? We could say he knows what it's like to be a sinner, and hates it. But then when we ask "What sin has God committed?" we would be forced to say that God has committed no sin, there is no injustice in God.
|
|
|
Post by nabilbb on Sept 16, 2013 16:33:53 GMT -6
Does God know what it's like to cause pain for no good reason? No, because even the sinner does not know what it's like to cause pain for no good reason. That's not a type of knowledge. It's like asking does God know what it's like when 1+1=3. But that's not knowledge. We have the same problem when we say that something is cold... there is a feeling that something is cold, but there is no such thing as cold. Cold is the absence of heat. Dark is the absence of light. Darkness isn't a thing in itself, but only in contrast to light. for every action, there is a reaction, sure the oppressor knows the feeling of being an oppressor, the torturer knows the feeling of torturing others.
|
|
|
Post by questionmark on Sept 16, 2013 20:27:32 GMT -6
Does the oppressor know the feeling of injustice?
God forces people to do things they don't want to do, that is technically oppression but it is justified, God is God. God torments people, but it is justified.
Is there really such a thing as injustice in itself? Is it not a failure to be just?
|
|